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Cybercitizenship (Again) »

Hong Kong’s papers have carried a couple of stories about cybersafety this week partly as a response to a young school boy who put a silly post online advertising himself for sexual services. Naturally, instead of seeing it as the cry for attention it clearly was, the media picked it up and blew it out of proportion. What this has done is again focus attention on the need to do as is recommended the world over: Educate!

I can’t comment about other parts of the world but Hong Kong has been very bad at picking up the whole cybercitzenship thing. I had a long conversation with Robyn Treyvaud of the Australian-based cybersafe kids network this morning about possibilities for her presenting at our conference in November.

Robyn pointed out that schools are sometimes unaware of the sort of things that can be easily put in place to educate kids and parents about good cybercitizenship. She was indicating that it was a great pity that each expected the other to pick up on it and so often, neither does. There was a good list of advice printed in this week’s edition of the standard.

I am sure that there are lots of lists like this out there but, for what it is worth, here is the one from the “National Association of School Psychologists”:

  • Keep computers in easily viewable places such as the family room or kitchen. (A bit out of date in an era where every portable device can access the internet and 3G and HSDPA networks are almost ubiquitous)
  • Talk regularly with your children about the online activities in which they are involved and internet etiquette in general. (I would also suggest that schools and parents should actively seek out good, kid friendly sites and services for kids to spend time productively. The super clubs plus site I posted about last week would be a great start.)
  • Encourage children to be self-protective. Remind them that anything they say on the internet or in phone text messages can be shared with others or misused. (Lots of good videos for this such as the US campaign NetSmartz.) Cyberbullying: you can’t take it back. 
  • Be specific about the risks of cyber-bullying and the need to tell if something that bothers them occurs.
  • Respect for adolescent’s privacy is important. But tell children that you might review their online communications if you have reasons for concern. (Unfortunately, I know few teachers and fewer parents who are very effective at being able to do this review effectively)
  • Set clear expectations for responsible online behaviour and phone use.
  • Consider installing parental-control filtering software or tracking programs but do not rely solely on these tools. (I would advise turning this on its head and use other methods and clear expectations first and use this as a sanction if needed. This is a dual-edged sword and may cut you hard in the long run.)
  • Be aware of warning signs that might indicate your son or daughter is being bullied, such as reluctance to use the computer, a change in your child’s behaviour and mood, or reluctance to go to school.



Is Strong Leadership in Education Coming Anytime Soon? »

US and Chinese students lack Science reasoningLast Friday I attended a seminar at Hong Kong University’s Centre for Information Technology in Education. There was hardly anything of revelation in the seminar which was about: How Research into ICT can support development in Policy and practice: reflections on Pedagogy and Learning with ICT: researching the art of innovation

The researcher was Prof. Bridget Somekh of Manchester Metropolitan University.

I have to say that I was not very impressed with the seminar which might be summed up thus:

If the use of ICT in schools is to reflect the natural comfortable way that students use it, you have to change lots of things about the classroom like assessment and curriculum.

Funny but the researcher quoted the Apple Classrooms of Tomorrow (ACOT) research that reached this conclusion in 1996. There are great deal of research papers from Melbourne, Australia that found this when MLC first went to a 1:1 model in around 1988!

On top of this we have newspapers, yes even the mainstream media, making folks aware that our insistence on the rote memorizing and regurgitation of facts on test papers is failing our students. The one opposite about science reasoning is almost identical to a paper I read in around 1990 about First Year Physics students being able to get questions about electrical circuits 100% correct but not being able to explain why the answers were the way that they were.

The other article below about meaningless multiple choice tests that students are expected to take to show that they “know stuff” is right on the money for a teacher (me) who was compelled to teach MS Word in great detail to Year 11 students (16 year olds) for 6 weeks and to teach HTML coding to Year 9s (13) who had IT as a compulsory subject! This was in high-tech Hong Kong in 2005!

Going outside of the mainstream media, the blogosphere is full of intelligent discussion on what really matters in Education like this post from David Warlick which I read today.

SCMP:Multi-Choice a waste of time

One can only hope that the change is in the wind and will lead to the emergence of some strong leadership in International Schools in particular. In my humble opinion, these are the perfect candidates to adopt innovation as they are well funded, well staffed with very able teachers and have a very supportive parent body who should themselves see the need to do things differently.

Unfortunately the leaders in these schools have adopted the “No one ever got the sack for buying IBM” mentality to set up schools where the goal is accountability based on the rigorous testing of content. Even many of the schools who say that they want to go to 1:1 learning for students fall back heavily on content testing.  No thought from any of them that they might consider students being able to take their laptop into these tests.

The clear indication of the heavy emphasis on testing and external examinations in this region comes from the large number of secondary schools that have recently announced that they are going to offer the International Baccalaureate at the school, only to go on to say that they would only offer the content and examination oriented IB Diploma course for Year 11 and 12 but not the internally assessed and more inquiry-based Middle Years Programme of the International Baccalaureate which does not offer an external examination.  Instead, 6 of the 9 schools I am aware of who have gone 1:1or are going there in the next academic year are opting for the IGCSE so that they can report the results of a high-stakes external examination to parents at the end of Year 10.

I can’t help thinking that if I were an employer or someone controlling access to further studies at a prestigious higher education establishment, I would be far more impressed with a student who was able to send me links to a digital portfolio of reflective writing, and digital artifacts that inspire and aim to make a difference to the world. Much like the artifacts that came from the flat classroom conference last week.

When you look at these artifacts, keep in mind that these were produced in 2 days by middle school students who had not met each other, spoke various different languages and came from entirely different cultures. They used laptops that were not their own and applications that they had never heard of.

I can only begin to imagine what empowered kids might do if they were encouraged to really create, communicate and collaborate for the greater good of their communities.

For those who might have interest in my notes from Prof. Somekh’s seminar, they are copied below for you:

Pedagogy and learning with ICT. Researching the art of Innovation.

  • She is promoting a new book.
  • Started with a view of the Taj Mahal from the rear and a story about trying to see the Taj at the right time. There was something about only seeing the back of the Taj that made it special. This is a metaphor for the work that she has done has allowed her to have an appreciation for what is happening even if the ICT in Education does not live up to the expectations.
  • Technology is such a new innovation that it really changes what happens when teachers take it up in class. Teachers no longer at the front.
  • The focus of her book is on the theory of innovation. Trying to develop a new theory rather than the accepted laggard/early adopter model.
  • Interesting point that Paul Hurst talks of “forms of knowledge” and Howard Gardner “multiple intelligences” one never refers to the other!!
  • Dr is trying to cross boundaries. Makes the point that we made be bound by previous research.
  • Big Question: How can we find ways of using research to support creative, collaborative process of change that combines imagining, experimenting with, and evaluating new social practices with technology?
  • Must change regulatory framework of schooling!!
  • Meta-analysis of theories
    • Action Research

§  Reflection and discussion(learning)

§  Making tacit knowledge explicit

§  Giving participants agency (through knowledge)

§  Changing power relations (eg. Between teachers/students, teachers/policy-makers)

o   Complexity Theory

§  Inter-relationships of things

§  Spontaneous self-organization

§  Systems change to maintain their coherence

§  Change in complex systems is not predictable

o   Chaos Theory (Kompf 2005)

§  ICT is an innovation that is happening spontaneously and has its own order

§  Innovatory programmes in education can’t buck the bigger process. (This is indicated by policy makers not starting with what students are doing.)

o   Wittgenstein – Theorist of sociocultural practices (Burbles and smith 2005; Smeyers and Marshall 1995)

§  Human activity is rule governed

§  We learn rules by “learning how to go on”

§  Rules that govern behavior can only be understood “from the inside”

o   Socio Cultural theories

§  Changes in practice depend on delveloping new internal “representations” in the mind, at the same time as learning skills.

o   Cultural-historical activity theory

§  Response to something can be a powerful mediator. Change requires that there is some sort of imperative.

§  We give teachers a board for expressing their knowledge. When kids get laptops there is a problem with the way that the schools are set up.

o   Communities of Practice Theory

A Welcome Change in the Wind in HK »

I will never forget my arrival in Hong Kong, having come from a very collaborative educational community and Windarriving in a school in 2005 where I was the only teacher to know what a blog was. At my very first meeting about directions of IT in the school I asked about the IT specialist community in Hong Kong and was told “I think a bloke at Shatin College knows a bit”.

Later in that year I finally got to meet up with a few colleagues at a meeting arranged by Graeme Deuchars at German Swiss International who did a great job of getting us all into a room but it was only a small group of mostly large international schools. There was no culture of regular meeting up and sharing in the majority of Hong Kong English Medium schools.

It was a long way from this when a group of us gathered at Kellett School last night for a session of sharing around the free and open source software Scratch, which the logo team at MIT are now making available to the Educational Community. Clive Dawes was our very able and gracious host but teachers from various schools attended to share and to learn.

Tonight we have a meeting for planning the 21st Century Learning conference set to happen next October in Hong Kong. At the same time, there is a Dartfish seminar at German Swiss International which is taking teachers through the use of video analysis for analysing and correcting sporting technique. We have just had a series of workshops here in Hong Kong by Jamie McKenzie which were well attended by regional schools.  Jamie plans to return in March of next year for another set of workshops.

What all of this says to me is that there is a wind of change blowing through the Hong Kong educational community surrounding the effective use of ICT for learning. It is a welcome breeze and one that looks to bring about a powerful change to the landscape here.

I for one, am looking forward to being a part of it.

Photo: Wind Farm by Zonifer Lloyd

Recognising Fantastic Teacher Learning »

There is no doubt that teachers coming to terms with changes in International Schools do a lot of learning. These teachers are often taking on planning of new curriculum like the International Baccalaureate thatTeachers International Schools are rushing to adopt or coming to terms with the changes brought about through the introduction of new technology into the learning program. Most teachers work very hard to embrace these changes. Admittedly, some work harder than others but that is human nature. What I want to reflect on here is the lack of recognition of that learning in many cases.

In a world adapting to life-long-learning, the concept of certification becomes quite complex. Having lived in Hong Kong the last few years, the amount of study in formal courses is something that is a huge industry here. Indeed, it is not uncommon for many HK residents to be studying for their 3rd or 4th degree! I am not the only one who thinks that the number of pieces of paper that a candidate produces at a job interview can have very little to do with the ability of the person to do the job in a truly effective way.

Returning to our teachers here, many of them are demonstrating the attributes often heralded by Higher Education establishments as the characteristics of a good academic student. They are reflecting on their practice, carrying out elements of action research, reading the latest writings on the topics of interest, either via the IBO curriculum resources site, other academic database collections or even blogs that discuss issues of “thinking curricula“, “inquiry approaches“, “information literacy” or other topics of interest related to the changes affecting them. The only difference with the teachers and the students of more formal bricks and mortar higher education establishments is that the teachers are not getting any formal certification for their studies.

I wrote some time ago about Professor Stephen Heppell’s vision for turning leading edge schools into Universities and I now see that the International School of Bangkok offers something similar via a collaboration with Buffalo State, State University of New York (SUNY) in the US. My concern about these initiatives is; what if I am a teacher at a smaller, less connected International School? What are my options and not just for me but for my Learning Community being set up within my school? Can’t we have some sort of flexible model that sees some work being done in the school and via the net and supported by holiday classes or a model where an academic is resident in the region for a period for some classes run along the lines of Professional Development but counting for credit to a higher degree?

This has to be a good way forward. How often do we hear that PD in schools is very ineffective when done on a “Seagull Basis” (fly in, drop a pile and fly out). There is a real opportunity for Universities and schools here if they can configure it right. I have been talking with people at HKU about this and our conference next October might be a good time to generate some discussion and interest.

Photo: IKBLC Group Study11 by UBC Library Graphics

A Timely Warning for Teachers »

I have written and presented at workshops about the importance of being aware of your online profile and howWarning easy it can be for people to find out EVERYTHING about you via Google search. In many cases this can be a great thing. Like when a long-lost friend or relative makes contact or someone acknowledges the work of you and your students online. But it can have serious and sometimes life-changing consequences such as in the case of Stacy Snyder, who was denied a teaching degree by Millersville University in the US for having a “drunken pirate” photo in her Facebook album.

Just last evening I had news of a similar thing occurring to a teacher I have close contact with here in Hong Kong. This teacher, like others I work with, shares details of life as an expat teacher on Facebook. It may not come as a huge surprise to anyone reading this that the out of school life of an expatriate teacher occasionally involves visits to places where beverage slightly stronger than iced tea is served. Photos of such happy establishments and the beverage partaken usually find their way onto many Facebook photo albums and, if the privacy settings for your photo albums on Facebook are left as the default, as most are, then the whole world is able to see what you are getting up to and with whom if they wish.

This HK teacher informed me that they were called into their Principal’s office and told that a parent at the school had been referred to their Facebook account via a student and had reacted very strongly to what they saw on it. As a result, the parent had put in a complaint to both the Education Bureau of Hong Kong and the school concerned to suggest that the teacher be found unsuitable to teach children.

Fortunately, the school and the Senior Management Team were very rational and discussed the matter with the teacher and asked them to either secure or remove the offending material.

Would your employer be as understanding?

Perhaps it might be worth the time to secure your information on social networks so that you are never in the position to have to find out.

Update: Dan Everest of Yew Chung International School – Primary Section contacted me after reading this post and sent me a guide to securing Facebook(PDF) and another on Facebook Photo Safety(PDF). I have linked to them here for your reference.

Photo: Warning, warning warning by Spotted drum ♥

Laptop Programs »

Hong Kong , and probably the greater Asian region, seems to be in the grip of laptop programs at the The old, heavy Toshibas seem so \moment. Surprisingly, this is not really spurred on by the emergence of the cheaper laptops on the market as the majority of schools are choosing the premium priced Macbooks as the laptop of choice. Can’t say that I am too surprised in this really as Apple still seem to be the only ones on the block with any idea that a 1:1 program involves more than just box dropping.  The PC vendors so far do not get the concept of kids and laptops. Surprising seeing that it was Toshiba who lead the way on 1:1 back in Australia in the late 80s.

The thing that most surprises me is the lack of “noise” in the HK education community associated with these initiatives. I am trying to be fair to the schools and the administrators when I say that I really hope that the programs are premised on all of the right goals and ideals. Any laptop program needs to be seen as the catalyst for the school to move from schooling model “A” to schooling model “B”. Sure, the change is not, and should not be expected to be, immediate but it needs to be acknowledged that this is the reason for the initiative and that it is where the school is heading. I have known of schools who have introduced laptops hoping that the school will be Schooling model “A + laptops”. All too often, schooling model “A”  was one that was content based and teacher directed and not really conducive to every student with a laptop all day every day. In many cases, this sort of program has resulted in a lot of frustration for teachers and students. In a number of celebrated cases, it has even lead to the school dropping the use of laptops in the school so that the school can return to doing schooling model “A” more effectively.

I know that many of the schools who are going 1:1 have a “walled garden” Learning Platform that allows for sharing between the schools in the Authority but not to the “outside world”. I am really hopeful that this has a lot of dialog on it from the schools to make up for the lack of blogging and general sharing of issues and ideas that is necessary for a program such as this. I know from my own experience, that the backward and forward discussion on a myriad of issues such as handling the kids who repeatedly put games on the machines, to insurance issues, to effective multimedia apps, to complaints from parents about teaching (or not teaching) typing, was fantastic and allowed for great, authentic exchange of ideas, documentation etc.

I for one, could not imagine having access to the tools to build a great Professional Learning Network around the area of Laptops in International schools in Aisa and not using them to share and reflect.

Is Focusing on Traditional Learning Really “Playing it Safe”? »

I think I once read somewhere that ideas can have their time and so when one person starts writing about K12 Onlinesomething, it often happens that another can be writing about the same thing at the same time without connecting in any way. This must be the case as I drafted this post around 10 days ago after listening to some of the excellent K12 Online Conference presentations.

I then picked up on this excellent blog post from Kim Cofino in my Google Reader last week. Kim wrote about lone voices trying to make a difference to schooling for students who wish to learn in ways that are more relevant in a digital, connected, always on world. Don’t I know about this lone voice feeling!!

My comment to Kim’s post was as follows:

Don’t know how you did it but you must have somehow been able to read the unpublished post in my blog -) Your thoughts exactly echo what I had written, even down to the references to Scott’s K12 Online Presentation. I have ordered “Disrupting Class” on the back of this.
Thanks for your take on Jon’s presentation too. I listened to this as an audio file but did not take away as much as you. I will revisit and look at the visuals.
I have been thinking a lot about my future lately. I left a great job with a shifting school in Australia to take a position with a school in Hong Kong who said that they were on a similar journey. Upon arrival I found the leadership sadly lacking in understanding of what ICT could do for learning across the school. They were really just into investment in technology that looked good in glossy photos. Unfortunately, they also did not really work to get the staff onboard. It was just about putting it in place and getting staff to use it, usually in addition to existing demands and responsibilities. Talk about a lone voice! From what I have seen of your colleagues they are generations ahead!
I eventually decided that over 2.5 decades of teaching and a master’s in effective use of ICT for learning must have some application in Hong Kong and the region. I set up a consultancy as a Digital Learning Advisory based in HK but working around the region. I am afraid to say that after around 2.5 years of doing that, it is still a huge challenge!
The IWB staff I took on and trained can make double what I can pay them as English Tutors in spite of the fact that there are IWBs in almost every school here with an English affiliation (in this former colony, that is most.) Apart from an elite couple of schools here, I dismay at the pitiful use of the boards. There are some great things I can show them and have for free but most schools here say they have no funds for “non-essential” workshops like using ICT for learning. I KID YOU NOT! I had a teacher suggest to me the other day that I should “disguise” my blogging and wiki workshops as “Using Poetry for the Teaching of English” as it would make her job of getting approval for the workshops a lot easier.
It sounds to me like Thai and Shanghai Schools are more supportive of embracing the disruptive technologies than here. At least you guys are employing integrators like yourself and Jeff.
I agree that we all seem to be a long way from finding schools like the Science Leadership Academy in this region.
If you do happen to know of one, let me know!
Or perhaps a few of us should get together and set one up. Now there is a Big Hairy Audacious Goal for you.

I then read a similar post lamenting the lack of vision in educational leadership in the state of Oklahoma from Wes Fryer. Then I happened across this report mentioned by someone which attempts to get business leaders in the US to identify the skills that they want to see in people coming into the workforce in the 21st Century. not many surprises in this report unless you think that businesses are happy with kids coming in with the skills from the schools of the past!

Having read all of this, my post now seems completely redundant but here it is anyway!Redundant

Having listened to a podcast on the weekend from Chris Betcher‘s Virtual Staffroom where he was interviewing teachers, Principals and Ed-Tech experts about the second Leading a Digital School’s Conference held in Sydney recently, it made me feel incredibly homesick for a country where School Leadership really do come onboard with 21st Century Learning. I know that it has been a rant of mine for a while that Hong Kong is just not moving beyond the very traditional uses yet. One can only speculate how long it will be before schools here even dream about something as “out there” as ePrincipals.

Unfortunately, there are still too many in School Leadership here who think that ICT integration is all about adding on laptops to the standard curriculum because that seems to be the thing to do, or installing EWBs in classrooms and then pushing the teachers to make use of the technology in addition to what they already do.  I am wondering how long schools here can continue to ignore and fail to properly embrace the presence of the powerful technology that is threatening to turn around and bite them on the bum.

Christiensen calls this technology “disruptive” and predicts that classrooms who continue to suggest that knowledge of pure factual content over how to learn via these technologies will be in for a rude shock by 2012 when it will be too late for them to “shift”. The reason that schools need some time to “get on board” is spelt out well in many of the research articles in the February issue of Educational Leadership which is themed around “teaching students to think”. Sylvia Martenez makes some great comments about a lot of the research from this issue in this excellent blog post.

I think a good indicator of the status of schools in Hong Kong is the great lack of Blogging Senior Admin Team members. The only blogging Principal in Hong Kong that I am aware of is Peter Kenny at Renaissance College and this seems to be more of a marketing exercise on the school website than a real blog of reflective comments inviting feedback. I could be very wrong about this and there may be a lot of Senior Admin Blogs out there. I am very keen to hear about them!

Photo: Redundant by Taylor Hain

Writing Online Workshop »

Last Friday I spent the day with the fantastic staff at Chun Tok School in Hammer Hill Kowloon. This is a Secondary Studentsspecial needs school for hearing impaired kids. I think that these kids are getting every opportunity to learn from the staff who are a really caring, dedicated lot. This was true right from the Principal, who extended me a very warm welcome right down to the kids themselves who smiled and seemed to enjoy the contact with a visitor.
Having worked with hearing impaired students in the UK previously, I do find it a real challenge getting and maintaining the attention of this group. At least with normally hearing kids you can use change in tone to get kids back on task. In a world which is increasingly reminding teachers, especially male ones, that you should never touch kids, it makes it doubly difficult to try to get the attention of kids who have English as a second (or third) language.
Chris Morrison is the hardworking and dedicated NET (Native English Teacher) in the school and Chris sees that getting the students to write online is a great way to get the kids to see the value in writing in English. I wanted to take it further and try to share a vision with the other staff members (Hong Kong born and educated teachers of English) of these kids writing for an audience of English speaking kids outside of Hong Kong. To do this I firstly shared a presentation with them about the importance of writing online. The presentation borrowed ideas and slides from some teachers who have a real vision for connecting kids globally. These teachers included Michael Walker, Kim Cofino and Suzie Vesper.
In the presentation I covered some examples giving the difference between blogs and wikis so that the staff could collectively decide what best met their needs. I think that this worked well as the teachers really enjoyed looking at the examples and getting a good understanding of how each was being used in classrooms in Hong Kong and around the world.
Fortunately, I had come across a blog posting in my Google Reader recently about Graeme Wegner in Adelaide who was seeking some comments about the writing that his students have done about “Ten Things Unique about Australia”. I was hoping that this might be a good topic to engage the young writers we were going to work with when we set up student blogs.
I was under no illusions as to the task of trying to get a message across about blogging and the possibilities that this might have for some young Chinese speaking kids with hearing impairment. Then set up blogs for classes and kids using the tools on Edublogs and finally to try to get kids to blog and to comment on other blogs all in the course of a single day. Such is the nature of living life as a consultant. As you will see from other posts on this blog, Hong Kong is a long way behind many, if not most, other countries when it comes to effectively using ICT for learning. As Chris said to me throughout the day,

I could get funding to get the most obscure and unqualified people to come into the school to conduct workshops on “teaching English through poetry, dance or drama” but when it comes to running workshops on using ICT for learning English it is very difficult to get approval.

Having recently reflected a lot on the ideas of Christiansen in “Disrupting Class”, one can only hope that the message gets trough soon.
Well, we did get some blogs set up for classes and even managed to get some RSS feeds into Google Reader for the teachers. They could very quickly monitor the posts of their kids in one space which worked really well.
The issue that we had was with making it clear to the kids that they had to REFLECT on the posts of the kids in Adelaide prior to responding. Most were just writing a “Hello! I live in Hong Kong and I like your blog” style of post which does not go far. I am sure that we can move on from this with a bit of response from the Aussie kids which I am hopeful of. The scene is now set!
The good news is that I get to go back and do another day with the school on November 28th. Although I have some new topics to do then like working on setting up video subtitling using Dot Sub and even doing video dubbing of news broadcasts into English using something similar to Know the News, I am hopeful that we will get time to visit the blogs and get some real “global exchange” going.

Photo: IMG_1985 by Wootang01

Workshop on Online Writing »

This is a workshop on how to write online. It is an example of a bloging and wiking workshop.Blogging

The Lessig Lecture »

I feel privileged to be able to go along and listen to someone whom I had only before seen present a talk on the TED forum last Friday evening. Given that it was a packed lecture theater, I feel doubly privileged to have been able to secure a seat close to front but not too close to have to strain my neck to see the slide show that I have to say, was very much like some of the online presentations that I have seen such as this one. I guess an inevitable consequence of having such great content online is that the quality presentations that must have taken a lot of time and effort to prepare, especially for the Lessig presentation style, is that we are likely to not be treated to brand new presentations when we see such a “big name”. There is an interesting side issue here about what we are wanting to see when we see a “name” speak. I guess if we don’t expect Bono or Mick Jagger to present new and different material that is incredibly engaging at each performance, should we expect it of a speaker? But that discussion is perhaps for another day.

The one thing that I would have asked as a question, had I had the opportunity amongst the many asking, isCC HK “how are you going to get the message to the Hong Kong schools where it needs to go?” I am almost glad that I did not get the opportunity as I probably would have been told something a little different to what I read in the next morning’s South China Morning Post which contained an article in the Education Section titled “Licensing Platform Opens”. It had a great one line explanation saying “Licensing enables educational works such as textbooks, worksheets, supplementary course materials and presentations to be shared freely and legally by students and educators.” Unfortunately, it also contained the sad statement “So far, no Hong Kong educational institutions have joined the initiative.”

Now there is a challenge for some Hong Kong schools to shift if ever there was one!